Le Topic des engins blindés (Index en page 1)

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[Mark_Ellis]

Le 4/12/2011 à 10:20 AM, jensen a dit :

 

 

 

 

I went to a New Zealand forum that talked about amphibious vehicles (for you I go far! )

 

The guy wrote that in the USA the Stalwarts had been re-engined with Cummins "300HP" and Cat...

He was also talking about Diesel Mercedes.

 

Then he went on Deutz, but I didn't mention it because I believe he was talking about a Duckw which was the subject of his next chapter.

 

And "of course" I took the info without bookmarking the site, so now to find it...

 

For the Berliet, what is the state of this diesel engine? Perkins? :???:

 

 

Only one Stalwart was trialled in America, with the standard Rolls Royce engine.

After service, numerous other engine makes have been installed

[Mark_Ellis]

Le 11/04/2011 à 19:22, jensen a dit :

 

 

 

 

 

 

ALVIS STALWART : Pas blindé mais amphibie… http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/sol.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Avertissement : Comme vous l’avez remarqué, l’engin dont je vais vous narrer l’histoire est dépourvu de blindage…

Néanmoins il présente de très nombreux intérêts, en particulier au niveau technique, c’est pourquoi il a, du moins à mes yeux, toute sa place ici !

Je n’ai de toute façon pas la matière nécessaire pour faire un "Topic des engins amphibies", car sorti des Larc XV, AAV-7 et autres Duckw il n’y a pas grand’chose à se mettre sous la dent…

 

 

 

 

La genèse de cet engin remonte en fait à 1952, année où la firme Alvis présente sa fameuse "triplette" 6X6 :

 

-Saladin : Une automitrailleuse lourde

-Saracen : Un transport de troupes dérivé

-Salamander : Un engin très spécifique commandé par la RAF pour intervenir lors des crashs aériens.

 

Le constructeur reprend alors la même base mécanique et présente, sur fonds propres, un simple Cargo non blindé, qui peut occasionnellement faire office de transport de troupes en milieu non carrossable.

 

Le FV620 est donc présenté en 1959 à l’armée Britannique.

Son 8 cylindres à essence Rolls-Royce de 6516cm3 et 220cv ainsi que ses 6 roues motrices en font un véhicule très aisé à manier en tout-terrain bien que son poids à vide soit de 10 tonnes.

 

 

Powered by Rolls-Royce !

 

 

Sa charge marchande embarquée (5 tonnes) est aussi digne d’intérêt.

Ses freins sont à disques et pourvus d’une assistance.

Son réservoir de 455 litres lui autorise une autonomie d’environ 820km.

 

Sa longueur est de 6.30m, sa largeur de 2.62m et sa hauteur de 2.31m.

 

Mais l’Etat-Major souhaite pousser le concept encore plus loin…

En 1961 est présenté le FV621, un engin recarrossé et cette fois-ci amphibie par flottaison.

 

 

L'un des tout premiers.

 

 

 

 

Le pilote est au centre de la cabine, il accède à cette dernière… Par une trappe sur le toit ! (plus de souci pour la conception des joints de portières : il n’y en a pas… )

 

 

 

 

 

 

Le moteur est à l’arrière et la transmission au centre.

 

La suspension est à barres de torsion secondées par… 22 amortisseurs hydrauliques ! http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/eek.gif

La propulsion en milieu aquatique est assurée par des hydrojets, que le pilote manœuvre depuis son poste de conduite.

La vitesse dans l’eau est de 9km/h environ, mais le Stalwart dépasse les 60 sur route.

 

 

 

 

La raison d’être du Stalwart est le déplacement d’hommes ou de matériel en milieu hostile (marécage, boue, neige et bien entendu plan d’eau) et il s’accorde parfaitement à sa tâche !

 

L’absence de blindage est certes un défaut, mais il aurait été difficile d’en faire un engin aussi agile si on l’avait alourdi de 3 ou 4 tonnes de métal, il fallait choisir entre protection et mobilité…

 

 

 

 

140 FV621 sont produits avant l’arrivée en 1966 du FV622, une version à la maintenance simplifiée et équipée entre autres d’hydrojets Dawty Marine plus efficaces.

 

La production continuera jusqu’en 1971, épaulée par le FV623 (ravitailleur de munitions équipé d’une grue Atlas) et FV624 (version spécifique et peu produite pour le Génie).

 

 

 

FV623 avec sa grue.

 

 

 

 

Au total on pense que 1400 Stalwart furent construits ! (Uniquement pour l’armée Britannique)

 

Dès le milieu des années 70 l’hélicoptère est apte à transporter le même tonnage de matériel mais évidemment 10 fois plus vite, n’ayant pas les contraintes du terrain à subir…

 

L’Alvis Stalwart sera massivement retiré du service dès le début des années 80 malgré des tentatives multiples de remotorisations Diesel plus économiques.

 

La licence de production fut cédée à Berliet qui présenta l’Auroch à l’armée Française.

Cette dernière le gardera longtemps en essais, mais l’arrivée de l’hélicoptère SA330 Puma sonnera le glas de l’engin et aucune commande ne sera en fin de compte jamais passée…

(Par contre l’Auroch connaîtra un beau succès chez Solido en miniature )

 

 

French version...

 

 

Si "le vrai" avait été aussi fabriqué que la miniature, il y en aurait encore à chaque coin de rue aujourd'hui ! http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/lol.gif

 

 

Chez Matchbox aussi, combien se sont pris pour de vaillants explorateurs ?

 

 

Une très belle réussite technique, mais l’entretien quasi-maniaque demandé par tout véhicule amphibie (rinçage soigneux de la caisse après immersion, vérification constante de tous les joints…) et de fait son coût de maintenance lui a raccourci sa carrière militaire (au demeurant c’est aussi la raison pour laquelle tous les concepts de voitures amphibies civiles ont été des échecs).

 

Par contre il connaîtra un très joli débouché civil !

 

 

Revendu en tant que surplus, de nombreux complexes hoteliers aux 4 coins du monde modifièrent des Stalwart pour des sorties découvertes ou de vastes parties de pêche, que ce soit entre autres aux Everglades, dans les Fjords Norvégiens ou les grands lacs Canadiens.

Remotorisés par des Diesel de toutes marques (Caterpillar, Cummins, Mercedes…) ils connaissent depuis bientôt 30 ans une seconde vie des plus téméraires !

 

 

Ici au Canada.

 

 

 

Beaucoup de mes lecteurs viennent de la section "anciennes", ma petite annonce va leur rappeller des souvenirs issus de Gazoline ou Rétroviseur...

 

Part. vend Alvis Stalwart, peu km (en fait on sait pas), bonne base de restauration (tu vas te casser les dents mec !), roule bien (quand on le pousse), corrosion légère (complétement pourri le truc...), petit prix si rapide (ma femme a craquée : Elle divorce !), part par la route toutes distances (une fois monté sur porte-char)...

 

 

Une vidéo qui va vous plaire (attention aux éclaboussures ! ) :

 

Après l'eau, la terre :

 

 

 

 

Sorry this is in English.

A very good article, but some corrections for you

 

The first Stalwart in 1959 was known as Camion. It was based on the Salamander airfield crash tender

As it was a private venture, the chassis was Project Vehicle 1, written as PV1

 

The British Army asked if it could swim.

 

 

They spent 16 hours waterproofing Camion. After 20 minutes in water, they drained 136 litres out of the hull.

 

 

ENTER PV2

By 1961 PV 2 was ready for trials. All vehicles with the chassis number 1 to 15 are known as Project Vehicles. It had a sliding hatch on the roof, but this was heavy and awkward to use.

 

So they took the round hatch from the sliding one, and put that directly into the roof

 

 

In 1962 PV2 was trialled in Sweden 

 

 

They realised that the single skin sideboard could be prone to damage and puncture, gave the side and tail boards a double skin. They also created pillars in the rear corners, and moved the exhaust and radiator header tank into the two pillars.

 

 

The British army ordered 125, and the FV620 was launched in 1963

This photo is PV14, which was sold to Germany. It is identical to the mark 1 FV620, which had chassis numbers STAL16 to STAL141

The FV621 was never made.

 

In 1965 the FV620 was deployed to British Forces in Aden.

You mention that the Stalwart is not armoured, but the hull was made of the same material as the Saladin and Saracen. The hull is of course shaped, which deflects the blast away. I have a photo somewhere of a Stalwart that's lost the front right wheel station from mine damage. Troops in Aden preferred to ride in the Stalwart as it was safer than in the Bedford

 

 

 

In 1965 / 1966 the Mk 2 stalwart was released, known as FV622 - with improved visibility, cab layout, internal winch and more.

The Mk2 all have chassis number STAL 11/xxx as in STAL 2/xxx

 

 

Alvis were asked in 1964 to fit a crane onto PV2, to act as a Limber for the Abbot self propelled gun - so they fitted a HIAB crane.

This is PV2, with the new design of side boards (for strength) and the HIAB crane.

 

 

The British were impressed with the crane, and asked Alvis to fit ATLAS cranes, the British Army's preferred lorry crane.

The FV623 and FV624 use the same crane. The difference is that the FV623 is an artillery limber, whereas the FV624 is used to remove and install engines and other components in vehicles. The FV624 has anti creep devices in the hydraulic pipes, so that the crane arm and the item being held will not drop down whilst the Fitters are preparing it to be put in or taken out.

This image is of an FV624, with mechanics working on the engine. The Fv623 crane arm would lower over time, whereas this has check valves to keep it up,

 

 

 

Other countries

Austria bought STAL11/169, 172, 175. After a tragic death, when someone fell out of the rear in full battledress and drowned, they disposed of the vehicles.
France were sent PV15 and STAL34
PV14, STAL11/16 and 17 were brought by Germany

PV6 was bought by Italy

Sweden was the second biggest user, with 26 vehicles

2 x PV

6 x Mk1 FV620

18 x Mk 2 FV622

 

The Swedish PV pair, PV4 and PV5 had octagonal hatches. This is the base for the Matchbox model with the octagonal hatches and flat sideboards. Note that the hatch is not round. They are known as Amfibiebil 101 A

 

 

 

Sweden fitted winches to the front of their FV620, known as Amfibiebil 101 B

 

 

They also fitted FOCO cranes to a number of their stalwarts. below is the Amfibiebil 101 C

 

 

These were installed by cutting the floor beams and adding strengthening beams

 

 

Sweden also made an amphibious floating trailer, designed to carry the Bofors 75 mm gun.

 

 

 

 

Thailand also bought one FV623 to be used as a Rescue Recovery vehicle at the Bangkok International Airport, because of the water surrounding the airport. It is the only Stalwart to have a fire fighting water monitor mounted on the cab. This is STAL 11/706

 

 

If you have or know of any images or records of the French Berliet Aurochs, and their trials - please do drop me a line.

I have a website with more info here https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/swedish-amfibiebil-101

 

The French pair, PV15 and STAL34. Note that the splash boards are different on the two models. At least one is at Musée des Blindés.
https://www.museedesblindes.fr/

 

 

 

In total, there were

15 PV

126 Mk 1 FV620

956 Mk2 FV622/623/624

Modifié 21 avril 2023 par Mark_Ellis

[Mark_Ellis]

On 11/4/2011 at 7:22 PM, jensen said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

ALVIS STALWART: Not armored but amphibious… http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/sol.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Warning : As you have noticed, the machine whose story I am about to tell you is devoid of armor…

Nevertheless, it presents many interests, in particular at the technical level, which is why it has, at least in my eyes, its place here!

In any case, I do not have the necessary material to make a "Topic of amphibious vehicles", because out of the Larc XV, AAV-7 and other Duckws there is not much to put in their mouths...

 

 

 

 

The genesis of this machine actually dates back to 1952, the year when the firm Alvis presented its famous "triplet" 6X6:

 

-Saladin: A heavy armored car

-Saracen: A derivative troop transport

-Salamander: A very specific machine ordered by the RAF to intervene during air crashes.

 

The manufacturer then takes the same mechanical base and presents, on its own funds, a simple unarmored Cargo, which can occasionally act as a troop transport in a non-passable environment.

 

The FV620 is therefore presented in 1959 to the British army.

Its 8-cylinder Rolls-Royce petrol engine of 6516cm3 and 220hp as well as its 6-wheel drive make it a very easy vehicle to handle off-road, although its empty weight is 10 tons.

 

 

Powered by Rolls-Royce!

 

 

Its on-board payload (5 tons) is also worthy of interest.

Its brakes are discs and provided with assistance.

Its 455 liter tank gives it a range of approximately 820 km.

 

Its length is 6.30m, its width 2.62m and its height 2.31m.

 

But the General Staff wishes to push the concept even further…

In 1961, the FV621 was presented, a rebodied machine and this time amphibious by flotation.

 

 

One of the very first.

 

 

 

 

The pilot is in the center of the cabin, he accesses it... Through a hatch on the roof! (no more worrying about the design of the door seals: there are none… )

 

 

 

 

 

 

The engine is in the rear and the transmission in the middle.

 

The suspension is with torsion bars assisted by… 22 hydraulic shock absorbers! http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/eek.gif

Propulsion in the aquatic environment is provided by hydrojets, which the pilot maneuvers from his driving position.

The speed in the water is around 9km/h, but the Stalwart exceeds 60 on the road.

 

 

 

 

The raison d'etre of the Stalwart is the movement of men or equipment in a hostile environment (swamp, mud, snow and of course a body of water) and it is perfectly suited to its task!

 

The lack of shielding is certainly a defect, but it would have been difficult to make such an agile machine if it had been weighed down by 3 or 4 tons of metal, we had to choose between protection and mobility...

 

 

 

 

140 FV621 were produced before the arrival in 1966 of the FV622, a version with simplified maintenance and equipped, among other things, with more efficient Dawty Marine hydrojets.

 

Production will continue until 1971, supported by the FV623 (ammunition refueler equipped with an Atlas crane ) and FV624 (specific and little-produced version for the Engineers).

 

 

 

FV623 with its crane.

 

 

 

 

In total it is believed that 1400 Stalwarts were built! (British Army only)

 

From the mid-1970s, the helicopter was capable of transporting the same tonnage of equipment but obviously 10 times faster, not having the constraints of the terrain to undergo...

 

The Alvis Stalwart will be massively withdrawn from service from the beginning of the 1980s despite multiple attempts at more economical Diesel re-engining.

 

The production license was transferred to Berliet who presented the Auroch to the French army.

The latter will keep it for a long time in trials, but the arrival of the SA330 Puma helicopter will sound the death knell for the machine and no order will ever be placed in the end...

(On the other hand the Auroch will be a great success at Solido in miniature )

 

 

French version...

 

 

If "the real one" had been as manufactured as the miniature, there would still be some on every street corner today! http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/lol.gif

 

 

At Matchbox too, how many have thought of themselves as valiant explorers?

 

 

A very fine technical achievement, but the almost maniacal maintenance required by any amphibious vehicle (careful rinsing of the body after immersion, constant checking of all the seals, etc.) and in fact its maintenance cost shortened its military career (in remaining this is also the reason why all the concepts of civilian amphibious cars have been failures).

 

On the other hand, he will know a very nice civilian outlet!

 

 

Sold as surplus, many hotel complexes around the world modified Stalwarts for discovery outings or vast fishing trips, whether among others in the Everglades, in the Norwegian Fjords or the great Canadian lakes.

Re-engined by Diesels of all brands (Caterpillar, Cummins, Mercedes, etc.) they have had a bold second life for nearly 30 years!

 

 

Here in Canada .

 

 

 

Many of my readers come from the "old" section, my ad will remind them of memories from Gazoline or Retrovisor...

 

Go. sells Alvis Stalwart, few km ( in fact we don't know), good basis for restoration ( you're going to break your teeth man !), drives well ( when you push it ), light corrosion ( completely rotten the thing ...), small price so fast ( my wife cracked: She divorces !), leaves by road all distances ( once mounted on a tank carrier )...

 

 

A video that will please you (watch out for splashes!):

 

After water, land:

 

 

 

 

Sorry it's in English

I've now found the images of the Stalwart after driving over a mine.

These show how the hull protected the crew from mine blasts. This was in Aden, in the 1960s 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here's a Saracen with the same hull at a Military display driving on 5 wheels

 

 

Modifié 23 avril 2023 par Mark_Ellis

[zygomard]

https://www.facebook.com/raphael.carroue.7/videos/845633613300127?idorvanity=320733912151738

[doutrerhin4]

Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

 

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Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

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Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

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Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

 

Modifié 31 octobre 2023 par doutrerhin4

[doutrerhin4]

Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

 

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Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

[doutrerhin4]

Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

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Technik Museum Sinsheim 2023

[yvesb]

Salut.

Le topic est vachement endormi...

Bon, voici des canons Italiens 1915-1918, ca rentre ds le topic?

ils sont equipes de palettes en bois ou ? Sur les roues, cette technologie a ete testee stt pour les tracteurs vapeurs et 1ers petrole, precurseur des chenilles. Si vs voulez en savoir plus: mots- cles Diplock et Pedtrail sur Google.

Bon WE.

Yves le belge.

 

[Pierre99]

 

 

[lebubu]

Une Volkswagen Schwimmwagen qui était exposée au Mondial de Paris en 1992.

[lebubu]

Cette autre Volkswagen Schwimmwagen était exposée en Seine et Marne 2009.

 

Modifié 10 février par lebubu

[volvo f 88]

Le 06/02/2024 à 21:55, Pierre99 a dit :

 

 

ils étaient pas entrain de le restaurer ce tigre ?

[Pierre99]

Le 10/02/2024 à 17:07, volvo f 88 a dit :

ils étaient pas entrain de le restaurer ce tigre ?

Il y a bien un projet, mais ça avance pas.