Il était une fois...Bugatti.

[Invité §bug337la]

to see with Kees Jansen (NL)

[aerolithe57]

END

[aerolithe57]

BUT NO END ...

here is Meyer with #4572 Type 35 in 1928 - NOT Type 35 C such as Bugatti-Register claims

http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=T35C_Unknown-Meyer

 

 

[Invité §lef048VM]

normal la photo provient de chez le propriétaire de cette Bugatti

 

Bonjour,

 

Je ne sais plus d'où proviennent ces photos.

Mais en théorie PS Ag.

Bien sur T35....

 

Establecimiento Pur Sang S.A

Mastronardi 888

Tel: 0343 4260326

Fax: 0343 4364372

Cel: 0343 154064081

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Invité §bug337la]

BUT NO END ...

here is Meyer with #4572 Type 35 in 1928 - NOT Type 35 C such as Bugatti-Register claims

http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=T35C_Unknown-Meyer

 

 

 

 

T35 or T35C ? with Meyer, to see :

 

http://www.laberezina.com/hist [...] 0/1928.htm

 

and http://wsrp.ic.cz/prewar1928.html#3

[aerolithe57]

merci for the information

a later renovation on compressor would be possible

[aerolithe57]

http://www.laberezina.com/hist [...] 0/1928.htm

 

http://wsrp.ic.cz/prewar1928.html#3

unfortunately the information is not convincing (many errors)

for example: #21 Junek T35 instead T35 C

 

but also interesting: Trivier in Casablanca 1927

 

[Invité §tun768Yb]

Cher ami (aerolithe57), laissez tomber...

[aerolithe57]

to see with Kees Jansen (NL)

this information is wrong

this information is missing

Engine no: 46, 105, 106

Year: 1925, 1926

License plate: 9563-J1, N 498, 1767-WW5,

Former owner: E.Bugatti, V.Junek, E.Bugatti, J.Trivier, E.Meyer,

 

http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=4572/4831

 

 

[Invité §tun768Yb]

this information is wrong

this information is missing

Engine no: 46, 105, 106

Year: 1925, 1926

License plate: 9563-J1, N 498, 1767-WW5,

Former owner: E.Bugatti, V.Junek, E.Bugatti, J.Trivier, E.Meyer,

 

http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=4572/4831

 

 

 

 

 

Cher ami (aerolithe57), laissez tomber...

Mais laissez tomber!!!!!

Si vous voulez corriger les données du Bugattiregister, faites le directement.

Il n'est pas nécessaire de "moucher" bugatti69

[Invité §bug337la]

 

 

Cher ami (aerolithe57), laissez tomber...

Mais laissez tomber!!!!!

Si vous voulez corriger les données du Bugattiregister, faites le directement.

Il n'est pas nécessaire de "moucher" bugatti69

 

Meyer : see http://www.bugattiregister.com [...] nown-Meyer

 

 

Other '4572' : see http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=%274572%27

 

http://www.bugattiregister.com [...] =4572/4831 < References: "The Bugatti Register The Netherlands Belgium" 2008-2009 p. 34 by Kees Jansen

 

 

To see with Kees Jansen (NL) : It has many information, absent until July 8, 2012, I await his answer.

[aerolithe57]

Cher ami (aerolithe57), laissez tomber...

Mais laissez tomber!!!!!

Si vous voulez corriger les données du Bugattiregister, faites le directement.

Il n'est pas nécessaire de "moucher" bugatti69

YOU MUST NOT READ MY POST !!

 

in addition: WE MUST ALSO READ YOUR POST !!

THAT FORUM IS NOT YOURS !!

 

BETTER YOU STAY QUIET !!

[aerolithe57]

Meyer : see http://www.bugattiregister.com [...] nown-Meyer

 

Other '4572' : see http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=%274572%27

 

http://www.bugattiregister.com [...] =4572/4831 < References: "The Bugatti Register The Netherlands Belgium" 2008-2009 p. 34 by Kees Jansen

 

To see with Kees Jansen (NL) : It has many information, absent until July 8, 2012, I await his answer.

this convinced me:

 

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/thumbnails.php?album=3647

 

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/thumbnails.php?album=4184

[aerolithe57]

an interesting photo for the Bugatti-Register:

two type 59 in Spain 1933

#441350 with 4617-NV2 and #441352 with 4619-NV2

(not found in the Bugatti-Register)

 

 

[Invité §bug337la]

an interesting photo for the Bugatti-Register:

two type 59 in Spain 1933

#441350 with 4617-NV2 and #441352 with 4619-NV2

(not found in the Bugatti-Register)

 

 

 

 

Thank you aerolithe57. See updated bugattiregister

 

 

VIII° Gran Premio de Espana, Lasarte, 24th September 1933 :

T59 #18 Achille Varzi (with 4617-NV2)

T59 #26 René Dreyfus

T59 #4 "Williams"

 

Probably with 441350, 441351, 441352 : For this meeting: Know you to it name of driver of each car ?

[aerolithe57]

Thank you aerolithe57. See updated bugattiregister

 

VIII° Gran Premio de Espana, Lasarte, 24th September 1933 :

T59 #18 Achille Varzi (with 4617-NV2)

T59 #26 René Dreyfus

T59 #4 "Williams"

how do you know that #18 Archille Varzi has 4617-NV2

I see no evidence

 

and how do you now that this is 4619-NV2

I see only 46........

 

[aerolithe57]

Probably with 441350, 441351, 441352: Know you to it name of driver of each car ?

 

unfortunately not

the photo with 4617 and 4619 is also in this book

http://www.youblisher.com/p/1457-From-Milan-to-Molsheim/

Hucke/Kruta write: 4617 and 4619 are "Varzi" and "Dreyfus"

 

my opinion:

I see no evidence

if the photo of the training is - "Williams" can be also

"Williams" had a accident in training

[Invité §bug337la]

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/09/03/35/48/t44_gp13.jpghttp://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/09/03/35/48/t44_gp12.jpg

#18 de Varzi with 4617-NV2 (F) (ref. 13 et 14 Bugatti Trust)

 

 

Even car on the 2 photographs of Trust.

Even place, even orientation of the two wheels of front

 

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/09/03/35/48/captu223.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

#4 de Williams : Probably with 4618-NV2 > 441351

[taxicomane]

Merci pour ces photos magnifiques (et pour le reste)

[Invité §bug337la]

and how do you now that this is 4619-NV2

I see only 46........

 

 

 

 

 

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/09/03/35/48/t59_gp30.jpg

 

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/09/03/35/48/captu228.jpg

[aerolithe57]

 

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/09/03/35/48/t59_gp30.jpg

 

 

it's 4617

 

 

 

 

 

[Invité §bug337la]

found well, it is apparently same car 441350

[aerolithe57]

the same car with "Dreyfus"

 

[aravis68]

Bugatti utilisait des cartes grises qu'il avait "en stock" pour les voitures de course.

441350 (17 CV) correspond presque à la puissance fiscale des Bugatti 59 encore en 2,8 litres au Grand Prix d'Espagne 1933.

 

Les premières 35 en 1924 étaient bien enregistrées en 4 places.

[Invité §tun768Yb]

J'en rajoute une... Couche.

 

Robert Jarraud a donné "le truc": comparer les photos en comptant les boulons et particularités. C'est infaillible.

 

Relisez le. Tout est vérifié, contrôlé, (re)pesé. Si c'est affirmé, les fourches caudines de l'examinateur sont passées par là.

[Invité §sag507uN]

J'en rajoute une... Couche.

 

Robert Jarraud a donné "le truc": comparer les photos en comptant les boulons et particularités. C'est infaillible.

 

Relisez le. Tout est vérifié, contrôlé, (re)pesé. Si c'est affirmé, les fourches caudèles de l'examinateur sont passées par là.

comparer les photos en comptant les boulons

 

hé bée du pain sur la planche pour refaire l'histoire

 

il y a cette expression pour ce genre de recherche

 

"sodomiser les diptères"

[Invité §tun768Yb]

Certes mais le Jarraud reste LA référence incontestée pour ce qu'il contient. Malgré des tas de "découvertes", il n'a pas livré tous ses secrets.

[taxicomane]

Furculae caudinae

[aerolithe57]

many errors in Bugatti-Trust

example: car #28 Benoist is ex #12 Nuvolari (so not #59124 )

 

 

[Invité §sag507uN]

Furculae caudinae

[Invité §tun768Yb]

 

C'était une cautèle!!!!

[Invité §bug337la]

many errors in Bugatti-Trust

example: car #28 Benoist is ex #12 Varzi (so not #59124 ) T59 with #12 ex Varzi : unknown, could be ex Nuvolari #54208/59123 ???

 

 

 

 

Where you found 59123 with #30 Jean Pierre Wimille ???

 

Bugatti-Trust does not specify it

[Invité §bug337la]

Meyer : see http://www.bugattiregister.com [...] nown-Meyer

 

 

Other '4572' : see http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=%274572%27

 

http://www.bugattiregister.com [...] =4572/4831 < References: "The Bugatti Register The Netherlands Belgium" 2008-2009 p. 34 by Kees Jansen

 

 

To see with Kees Jansen (NL) : It has many information, absent until July 8, 2012, I await his answer.

 

 

 

This is what I understand from the factory records and other source documents about 4572/ 4831:

4572 with engine 46 was made in June 1925 and sold to Elska (Elisabeth) Junek. However Ettore had a very good relationship with her and her husband. The car was kept outside the books and in order to save on import cost it was renumbered to 4059 (the tank that they had bought earlier). Later she brought 4572 back and exchanged it for 4831, made in August 1926 with engine 105, which again was renumbered 4059. So she drove to Molsheim with one car and came back with another on the same chassis number. The factory did not care so much about chassis numbers, but engine numbers were sacred. As a result they called a car after its engine number which was never changed, whilst chassis numbers were often changed. So the factory called a car 'Voiture moteur xxx'.

So Elska owned it between June 1925 and August 1926 and drove the races in between with this car.

How did Aerolithe57 obtain named Meyer with 4572 ??

 

Kees

[aerolithe57]

 

Where you found 59123 with #30 Jean Pierre Wimille ???

 

Bugatti-Trust does not specify it

possible car #30 is 59124

 

http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/photographs/v/album-20/071+D1226_28.jpg.html

 

 

[aerolithe57]

T59 with #12 ex Varzi : unknown, could be ex Nuvolari #54208/59123 ???

correct is ex #12 Nuvolari

but with registration 8266-NV1 ( 54210 )

the same car as 8264-NV1