TARGA FLORIO E LE CORSE SICILIANE

[shortleg]

Chers amis, j'ai vu maintenant toutes les belles photos qui sont dans ce tres interessant sujet!

Avez vous entre vos images, les voitures suivantes?

Ferrari 250LM n.132 Sigala-Taramazzo 8° Targa Florio 1965

Alfa Romeo Giulia GTAJ 1300 Mobili Morandi Terminiello-Esposito 19° Targa Florio 1972

Merci beaucoup! Et Bonne Fetes!!!

 

 

Sorry but I have this only!

 

 

Best wishes

 

[Fulviostratos]

 

Sorry but I have this only!

 

https://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/336526/1965 Taramazzo-Sigala.jpg

 

Best wishes

 

Thank you very much, shortleg!!! This is a beuatiful present for my Christmas

I think the other car, the Alfa, will be very difficult to find, but 'never say never'

Best wishes

[Invité §too155pX]

Copyright "Emotion Ferrari" de Maurice Louche

 

[Fulviostratos]

Copyright "Emotion Ferrari" de Maurice Louche

 

https://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/224777/05-09 Targa Florio.jpg

 

 

Fantastique image! Avec la chaleur des spectateurs et le panneaux avec la date! Merci beaucoup, tool-43!

Bonnes Fetes!

[shortleg]

Copyright "Emotion Ferrari" de Maurice Louche

 

https://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/224777/05-09 Targa Florio.jpg

 

 

Many thanks for my part too, spendid image!

 

 

[shortleg]

Copyright "Emotion Ferrari" de Maurice Louche

 

https://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/224777/05-09 Targa Florio.jpg

 

 

Many thanks for my part too, splendid image!

 

 

[Invité §Jim301Fg]

Wow, shortleg, you have a lot of knowledge about the Targa Florio! Perhaps you can help resolve a long debate I have with several friends. Do you know what happened to all of the race and practice cars the Martini Porsche team brought to the '73 Targa Florio? I am especially interested what cars were used in practice, what cars were used in the race, when the substitutions were made, and why. If interested, the link to the debate is http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9074; my 2 cents is post number 92 on page 7 of that thread.

 

The pictures and posts to your thread (especially the picture of the Bessica Tipo 33 with Martini Porsche #108T in the background) are FANTASTIC! Now I hope you can help solve this long debate. Please send your response to jcalzia@usgs.gov if you believe it is too long for your thread

 

 

[shortleg]

Wow, shortleg, you have a lot of knowledge about the Targa Florio! Perhaps you can help resolve a long debate I have with several friends. Do you know what happened to all of the race and practice cars the Martini Porsche team brought to the '73 Targa Florio? I am especially interested what cars were used in practice, what cars were used in the race, when the substitutions were made, and why. If interested, the link to the debate is http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9074; my 2 cents is post number 92 on page 7 of that thread.

 

The pictures and posts to your thread (especially the picture of the Bessica Tipo 33 with Martini Porsche #108T in the background) are FANTASTIC! Now I hope you can help solve this long debate. Please send your response to jcalzia@usgs.gov if you believe it is too long for your thread

 

 

 

Granted that, my interest has been always addressed to the competition and drivers, not to history of single cars, I'd like to pronounce my opinion about the matter, no certainty: identifying the cars by race numbers, not by frame number, the cars should be 5: n°8 - n°9 - n°107 - n°108 (no taking part in official practice) and a test car without race number. When the n°107 was crashed, its engine has been removed and reassembled into n°108 or T car.

This car took part certainly in the race with a race number 107 again.

In any case, in my opinion, the cars should be 5. Sorry, but I hav'nt any informations.

Excuse my scholastic English, but I hope comprehensible!

regards

[hughh]

Hi Shortleg,

thank you for your response regarding the Martini Porsches in 1973. This is a fantastic thread and you and the other members who have posted on this thread` have done a wonderful job to recreate the history of this great event.

 

As a contributor to the thread on the Porsches that Jim mentioned I would like to thank and acknowledge all the posts here, as they have helped our quest to see exactly which cars Porsche actually fielded in the race in 1973 - and what happened to them.

 

A number of photos of the cars have been posted on the thread already, and they have helped answer some questions about the cars that Porsche fielded, - and some have posed even more questions. I would appreciate it if there were any other photos of these cars that could be posted, even when they are in the background of another shot , as the 108T car was in the photo of the Bessica Tipo 33.

 

thanks in anticipation

 

Season's Greetings

 

Hugh Hodges

Melbourne Australia

[zakspeed]

j'ai de la doc sur un bouquin "sport et prototypes" à venir

[shortleg]

Hello friends, this evening I wish to show you same of protagonists in the fifties.

In 1955 the race becames valid for World Championship Makes with participation of the most important car makes and great drivers.

 

 

1951 Franco Cortese on Frazer Nash

 

 

1953 Umberto Maglioli, three times winner, with Vincenzo Florio

 

 

1954 Piero Taruffi kisses his wife after victory on Lancia D24

 

 

1955 Stirling Moss on Mercedes 300 SLR hugs his codriver Peter Collins

 

 

1956 Eugenio Castellotti on Ferrari 860 Monza before starting

 

 

1958 Collins - Moss - Hawthorn

 

 

1958 Luigi Musso and Olivier Gendebien winner with his Ferrari 250 TR

 

An happy new year to all

 

[Invité §Car017Zg]

Très belle image de la Targa '60, du fantastique livre "Porsche Moments" de Jesse Alexander:

 

 

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5503/60tftwoworksporsches718rq6.jpg

 

Deux Porsches 718 RS60 usine (Graham Hill -au volant- et Edgar Barth, #184, 5e; Hans Herrmann -au volant- et Jo Bonnier, #176, vainqueurs)

 

 

Carles.

[shortleg]

Très belle image de la Targa '60, du fantastique livre "Porsche Moments" de Jesse Alexander:

 

 

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5503/60tftwoworksporsches718rq6.jpg

 

Deux Porsches 718 RS60 usine (Graham Hill -au volant- et Edgar Barth, #184, 5e; Hans Herrmann -au volant- et Jo Bonnier, #176, vainqueurs)

 

 

Carles.

 

 

Hello Carles, glad to see your name again!

Wonderful your giantposter, but...G.Hill raced with Barth on RS n°160; (here he is seated into the winner car), in background there is the n°176 of Herrmann-Gendebien (3rd). The race was won by RS registered with n°184 and driven by Bonnier and Herrmann.

Hans Herrmann, during the race alternated with both the cars; those were the days!

An happy and shining new year from Shortleg

 

[shortleg]

1907 The Targa Florio by Lalique

 

 

1907 postcard

 

 

100 YEARS AGO!!!

 

[ymerpa]

bonjour un scanne de revu altaya

1921

1922

[Invité §pif487mm]

Une image de la Targa 1963

à plus tard.

[Invité §Car017Zg]

 

Hello Carles, glad to see your name again!

Wonderful your giantposter, but...G.Hill raced with Barth on RS n°160; (here he is seated into the winner car), in background there is the n°176 of Herrmann-Gendebien (3rd). The race was won by RS registered with n°184 and driven by Bonnier and Herrmann.

Hans Herrmann, during the race alternated with both the cars; those were the days!

An happy and shining new year from Shortleg

 

 

 

Thankyou for your precissions...

 

 

and apologise for the poster-like picture... it should be smaller...

 

 

Carles.

 

[shortleg]

GOOD YEAR TO ALL

 

Postcards from Targa Florio

 

 

 

 

see soon

[shortleg]

hello friends, here I am with some pictures on first editions of Targa Florio-Giro di Sicilia before War 14-18

 

 

1912 In the foreground Guido Ayroldi will run with V.Florio on Mercedes

 

 

 

1912 Cyril Snipe first winner on Scat

 

 

1912 More the British Snype and his mechanic, the Italian Pedrini

 

 

1913 The start

 

The course, around the Sicily Island for about 1000 km, was divided in two stages and at least Felice Nazzaro on Nazzaro came out the winner.

After 1914 the race in this format drew on in 1948 untill 1950; from '51 Giro di Sicilia and Targa Florio became two separate events, the first continued up to '58, the second up to '77.

 

bye to all

 

 

[Invité §spi287cG]

Best wishes to all for 2008!

 

Shortleg, when I see those pictures of the cars in the period round the first worldwar they look like lorries to me.

I think it's already difficult to drive round a corner with this great beasts. So the Targa - with hunderds of curves -

must have been a difficult battle to win.

 

By the way what a beautiful picture of Tazio Nuvolari in his fine Alfa Romeo/Pirelli overall and with his goggles (1932).

Who do you think was the greatest Targa driver ever? Do you have a favourit?

 

Cordiali saluti

 

 

[shortleg]

Best wishes to all for 2008!

 

Shortleg, when I see those pictures of the cars in the period round the first worldwar they look like lorries to me.

I think it's already difficult to drive round a corner with this great beasts. So the Targa - with hunderds of curves -

must have been a difficult battle to win.

 

By the way what a beautiful picture of Tazio Nuvolari in his fine Alfa Romeo/Pirelli overall and with his goggles (1932).

Who do you think was the greatest Targa driver ever? Do you have a favourit?

 

Cordiali saluti

 

 

 

Hello spider, it is not easy reply to your question, it's like "who was the greatest F1 or Sport driver ever"?

I'm able to judge the span of time between '66 and the end ('77) of wich I'm been a witness; here it needs distinguish between reasoner drivers from spectacular and daring drivers.

The first were not fastest but regular and profitable drivers able to take a car to finish and win, like Bonnier, Maglioli, Vaccarella; the second, fastest and daring, able to anything, sink or swim like Moss, Rodriguez, Elford.

Do you want to know my favourit? Vic Elford !...even if I always supported to my countryman Vaccarella. But, on the Targa roads, Vic was a real raving mad! a certain exibition!

As concerning the past, the question is the same, but I think that Masetti, Divo, Varzi and Nuvolari were the greatest interpreters for this race one of a kind, to drive with hearth and with mind.

 

bye and to next

 

 

[Invité §spi287cG]

I agree with you Shortleg, Vic Elford is defenitily one of the greatest versatile drivers of his era. In many Targa’s in which he competed he set the fastest lap time. I remember the Targa Florio in 1968, in this race he was partnered by Umberto Maglioli. Together they drove a Porsche 907 to victory. In the first lap Vic lost half a lap because of wheelproblems. But he never gave up and at the end he came out first after setting the laprecord.

Although I admire Elford, it was a pity that he defeated the Autodelta couple Ignazio Giunti and Nanni Galli in that race, because they also drove a superb race with their Tipo Trentatre.

 

A nice video/dvd to watch is ‘The Speed Merchants’ in which Vic Elford is one of the narrators. As member of the Autodelta Alfa Romeo team he is followed by camera through the 1972 World Championship for Makes season. The film takes you behind the scenes of many famous racetracks like Daytona, Le Mans and also the Targa Florio. In the film you see onboard shots from the Madonie circuit as passenger in Vic’s Tipo 33TT3. You see

also shots from the Targa in 1972.

 

Another item that I can recommend is Elford’s book ‘Reflections on a golden era in motorsport’, told by Vic himself. Foreword by Ferdinand Piëch.

A great book to read, with many pictures.

 

Tazio Nuvolari is also one of my favorites. His drives for my favorite make Alfa Romeo are legendary, like the German GP in 1935 in which Nuvolari defeated the Mercedes-team. Also famous is his battle in the Mille Miglia against Achille Varzi.

 

Cordiali saluti

 

[shortleg]

I agree with you Shortleg, Vic Elford is defenitily one of the greatest versatile drivers of his era. In many Targa’s in which he competed he set the fastest lap time. I remember the Targa Florio in 1968, in this race he was partnered by Umberto Maglioli. Together they drove a Porsche 907 to victory. In the first lap Vic lost half a lap because of wheelproblems. But he never gave up and at the end he came out first after setting the laprecord.

Although I admire Elford, it was a pity that he defeated the Autodelta couple Ignazio Giunti and Nanni Galli in that race, because they also drove a superb race with their Tipo Trentatre.

 

A nice video/dvd to watch is ‘The Speed Merchants’ in which Vic Elford is one of the narrators. As member of the Autodelta Alfa Romeo team he is followed by camera through the 1972 World Championship for Makes season. The film takes you behind the scenes of many famous racetracks like Daytona, Le Mans and also the Targa Florio. In the film you see onboard shots from the Madonie circuit as passenger in Vic’s Tipo 33TT3. You see

also shots from the Targa in 1972.

 

Another item that I can recommend is Elford’s book ‘Reflections on a golden era in motorsport’, told by Vic himself. Foreword by Ferdinand Piëch.

A great book to read, with many pictures.

 

Tazio Nuvolari is also one of my favorites. His drives for my favorite make Alfa Romeo are legendary, like the German GP in 1935 in which Nuvolari defeated the Mercedes-team. Also famous is his battle in the Mille Miglia against Achille Varzi.

 

Cordiali saluti

 

 

Hello spider, are you Italian?..."I remember the Targa Florio in 1968", are you there also? I was there and in that muggy day I hated Vic! I supported to Alfa and Giunti-Nanni had the race in one's power by then, but they did'nt cash up with "Devil"!

Worked off the frustration, I was able to understand what he has done and in the same time he became an idol of mine.

Thanks again for your indications about books and videos

 

To keep to the point I'd like to show some image on Vic at Targa

 

 

 

1968 winner with Maglioli on Porsche 907

 

 

1969 with Maglioli again on Porsche 908/02

 

 

1970 with Herrmann on 908/03 Salzburg

 

 

1970 on 908/03 Gulf proto in practice

 

 

1970 on 917 Salzburg in practice

 

 

1971 with Larrousse on 908/03 Martini

 

 

1971 pic nic on the 908 rear wing

 

 

1972 last participation with VanLennep on Alfa 33/TT/3

 

see next

 

[shortleg]

Hello friends, I found the rare image on accident involving DeAdamich and Adamo's Fulvia in '73 ( from last Autosprint)

 

 

After touching , the Alfa went to crash against a post made of stone at left.

 

 

if you interested this is the Fulvia of Adamo-Rosolia implicated.

 

see soon

 

[Invité §pif487mm]

Pour ce soir une illustration de Rob Roy sur la Targa Florio 1926

@+

[shortleg]

Pour ce soir une illustration de Rob Roy sur la Targa Florio 1926

https://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/360937/bugatti-targaflorio26-Poli.jpg

@+

 

 

Very nice, I never seen it and did'nt know Rob Roy (sorry)!

It should portray Costantini and in background Mucera on Ceirano.

 

bye

 

[shortleg]

Here I am friends;

after five years of Bugatti victoryes, it was time for Alfa Romeo. The Italian reply to Bugatti's power was devastating:

six consecutive victoryes, from '30 to '35! Protagonists were Varzi ('30 and '34), Nuvolari ('31 and '32) and Brivio ('33 and '35)

 

 

1930 Varzi-Tabacchi on type P2 modified

 

 

1930 Ernesto Maserati on Maserati 26M

 

 

1931 Tazio Nuvolari on type 8C 2300

 

 

1931 Baconin Borzacchini on type 6C 1750 GS

 

 

1931 Luigi Fagioli on Maserati 26M

 

 

1931 Luigi Arcangeli-Goffredo Zehender on type 6C 1750 GS

 

 

1931 Nuvolari in practice on 8C 2300

 

see you soon

 

 

 

[Invité §spi287cG]

No Shortleg, I’am not Italian, I’am from the land of windmills and tulips. My knowledge of the Targa is coming from books and films. I got interested in the

Targa when I read an old issue of the English magazine Motorsport. I got it from a friend who bought it second hand on a trip to England. In the magazine was the reportage of the 1970 edition of the Targa Florio. So my fascination for the Targa was born.

I was already interested in cars – especially Italian cars – and sportscar racing.

One of my first cars was a FIAT 600 and I also drove five different Lancia’s in fifteen years time. Since 1991 I’am the proud owner of a beautiful

Alfa Romeo Spider 2000 Veloce which I drive only with nice weather. Because of the Spider I’am a member of the Dutch Alfa Romeo Spider Register (www.alfaspider.com) a club of around 600 members who share the same passion, the Alfa Spider. The club’s quarterly is called Spiderama and I’am one of the editors. For this magazine I write articles about the Alfa Romeo Tipo 33.

For these articles I read many books in which the Tipo 33 occures. I also find much information on the internet, for instance about (minor) Italian races like the Trofeo Vallecamonica, the Coppa Sila, the (Euro)Salita Series and races on Vallelunga and Mugello.

That’s why I’am also a regular visitor of this fantastic forum in which you can find new information and share your knowledge.

 

PS. Many thanks for the Elford photo’s and the picture with the De Adamich – Adamo crash.

 

Cordiali Saluti

 

[shortleg]

Carrying on the topic Targa in the therties...

 

 

1932 A young Clemente Biondetti on unusual car : Maserati body and Bugatti 2300 engine

 

 

1932 Nuvolari winner on 8C 2300 Monza to exstraordinary average km/h 79,294, unbeaten in '52 only, after 20 years!

 

 

1933 Costantino Magistri on 8C 2300

 

 

1933 Antonio Brivio on 8C 2300 Monza, here with V. Florio

 

 

1934 Achille Varzi on P3 8C 2900

 

 

1935 Antonio Brivio on P3 8C 2900

 

From this moment, until the War, the race had a hard financial crisis and after a very mild edition in '36 (Touring cars only) on Madonie roads, it was moved on Favorita circuit at Palermo until 1940.

 

see you soon

 

[shortleg]

Wake up friends, the topic is not mine only !

 

Here you are more three superbe images on Varzi in '30 and Nuvolari in '30 (Alfa 1750 GS) and '32( 8C Monza)

 

 

 

 

see you soon

[Invité §pif487mm]

 

Very nice, I never seen it and did'nt know Rob Roy (sorry)!

It should portray Costantini and in background Mucera on Ceirano.

 

bye

 

 

Glad to see that you are pleased, Rob Roy was a french painter and illustrator and a keen Buggatist. A little less known than Geo Ham outside of France but as talented and his paintings are very fresh and spontaneous. Here two more pictures of the Targa.

If you are interested there is a very complete site on Rob Roy and his work at http://art-robroy.com/ where you can find many of his paintings in hi.res. format

 

 

 

Bye, Pifpafadonf

[shortleg]

Many thanks pifpa for information, Roy is very suggestive and realistic.

 

 

ERRATA CORRIGE : This is Chiron not Brivio, excuse me !

 

see soon

[shortleg]

In 1937 the Targa was temporary translated on Circuit of Favorita Park where took part four editions reserved to race monoplaces; virtually a monomake Maserati: in '37 won Severi, in '38 Rocco, in '39 and '40 Villoresi on Maserati all.

 

 

1937 start

 

 

1937 Francesco Severi

 

 

1938 Giovanni Rocco

 

 

1939 Pagliano and Barbieri

 

 

1939 Gigi Villoresi

 

 

1940 start

 

 

1937 and '39 postcards

 

But this also is a part of Targa history !

After War the race started again in '48 on the Giro di Sicilia roads.

 

see soon dear friends

[Invité §pif487mm]

I did not knew about the episode of the Circuito di Palermo in the Targa history. Interesting photos and very nice post)cards.

Here an infographie (photo extensively reworked by computer) of the Targa 65 by Juan Stuart.

 

Bye

[shortleg]

I did not knew about the episode of the Circuito di Palermo in the Targa history. Interesting photos and very nice post)cards.

Here an infographie (photo extensively reworked by computer) of the Targa 65 by Juan Stuart.

 

https://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/360937/Targa-Florio1965

Bye

 

 

Hello my faithful supporter, suggestive and rare (never seen) picture, bravo!

These are Ravetto-Starrabba ( n°118, 12°) and Grana-Toppetti (ab.)

 

Often I wondered how much material on Targa exsists out of Italy unknown to us !

Fortunately there are keens like you, thanks.