Il était une fois...Bugatti.

[Invité §tun768Yb]

Beaucoup de Bugatti dans la vente Artcurial...

Le catalogue est en ligne...

 

 

Et des Voisins classées monuments historiques...

 

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

Les propriétaires de ces Voisin et Hispano avaient des acieries, concurrentes de Krupp ou De Wendel...

Ils ont toujours gardé toutes leurs voitures sans jamais les revendre à quelques exceptions près...

 

Mais du fait d'une succession, comme pour une autre affaire concernant des Ferrari, le fisc s'en est mêlé...

Les héritiers doivent donc vendre les voitures restantes, toutes des premières mains, avec interdiction de les sortir de France..

À ma connaissance, mais à vérifier, il n'y avait pas de Bugatti dans la famille..

 

Ce n'est pas une sortie de grange...mais c'est encore mieux, me semble t il...

[mimiss]

 

Et des Voisins classées monuments historiques...

 

Et aussi des Serenissima, dans un tout autre style.

--------------

 

Une jolie 55 (j'image venant de Mulhouse) au dernier Mondial de l'Auto

 

[tautaudu02]

Article de "Le Blog Auto" sur la vente Artcurial :

https://www.leblogauto.com/201 [...] range.html

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

Merci à Tautaudu pour l'article LE BLOG AUTO..

 

En effet, il ne faut pas faire croire que les sorties de grange soient si courantes...surtout pour ces messieurs d'Artcurial:

 

La fameuse vente BAILLON avait été précédée de 2 ventes, quelques années auparavant, et des centaines de personnes connaissaient cette collection..

Au moins tous ceux qui avaient assisté à ces ventes... J'y étais et je n'étais pas seul.. J'y avais accompagné Serge Pozzoli...

 

Les VOISIN de la prochaine vente ARTCURIAL proviennent d'un ensemble de voitures très haut de gamme conservées depuis plus de 80 ans

dans la même famille.. Ce sont donc toutes des premières mains... OSENAT avait déjà fait une vente, il y a 5 ans, de quelques voitures de même provenance...

Panard, Hispano, Voisin... Que du beau...Un célèbre expert de la marque VOISIN connaissait toute cette collection depuis de nombreuses années..

 

Les BUGATTI hollandaises également proposées chez ARTCURIAL ne sont pas non plus des sorties de grange..

Ces voitures, connues de plusieurs personnes, ont été proposées à Me POULAIN par leur propriétaire..

Ce n'est donc pas une découverte de l'étude....

 

Comme disait je ne sais plus qui: "il n'y a de nouveau que ce qui a été oublié.."

 

Pour ma modeste part, j'ai eu la chance, dans les années 60, de faire quelques belles découvertes:

 

- la GREGOIRE(1910) de course d'Hubert Latham, retrouvée dans son château de Maillebois, dans l'Eure

- la P et L de 1896, nichée dans le château de la famille Deutsch de la Meurthe, à Ecquevilly(78)

- la Delaunay Belleville de 1910, carrosserie transformable, sur cales à l'état neuf, dans le château de Francois Ceyrac, ancien patron des patrons, à Serverette...

 

Je suis toujours de près un bel ensemble de voitures en première main près de Chinon:

une Delaunay Belleville de 1911, une Hotchkiss AM80 et une traction de 1938..

Toutes les 3 sont sur cales dans le garage du château et n'ont jamais bougé depuis 50 ans que je les connais (Lalanne les connait aussi....)

 

Mais évidemment tout ceci n'est rien à coté des innombrables Bugatti découvertes par Jacques du Montant, Pierre Delière ou Yves Dalmier,

qui découvrit aussi l'Isotta Fraschini gagnante de Pebble Beach il y a 2 ou 3 ans..

Lire son livre: "Les Roues de la Fortune" qui raconte ses "sorties de grange", c'est passionnant...

 

Mais cette époque est bien révolue et ces messieurs d'Artcurial devraient avoir un peu plus de modestie..

Beaucoup d'amateurs les ont précédé depuis plus de 60 ans... Malartre, Pozzoli Schlumpf pour ne citer qu'eux...

[Invité §tun768Yb]

En effet, il ne faut pas faire croire que les sorties de grange soient si courantes...surtout pour ces messieurs d'Artcurial

 

 

Entièrement d'accord... Mais ces commissaires-priseurs ne liquident pas des sociétés en faillite dont les actifs ne couvrent pas les dettes... Ils mettent en valeur des objets pour que les vendeurs et leur auxiliaires (dont eux-mêmes au premier chef) reçoivent un maximum d'argent. Publicité, marketing, jeux de mots sont les maîtres mots de ces Messieurs-Dames.

 

Ayant procédé à 6 sorties de grange, je confirme que le hasard et la discrétion des détenteurs de voiture jusque là inconnues sont prépondérants ainsi que, dans mon cas, le feeling avec les vendeurs (comme dans votre description: des voitures oubliées, ne roulant plus, venant souvent du 1er propriétaire ou du 2e qui n'a jamais roulé avec... Tel fut le cas de la BP2 "sauvée" in extremis par un paysan après avoir été trouvée chez le 1er propriétaire, probablement décédé, du D.B HBR5, de la D.B Le Mans, de deux Panhard Dyna Junior et d'une VW Karmanne-Ghia 1957 en état neuf). L'oubli tient en général au fait que personne ne s'intéressait aux véhicules en question... Leur sauvegarde -on peut même parler de "survivance"- n'en est que plus miraculeuse dans certains cas.

 

Personne ne poste les photos des Bugatti proposées?

 

[Bug35B]

https://www.glassdoor.fr/Avis/ [...] 919398.htm

 

https://www.tripadvisor.fr/Att [...] rance.html

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

Une intéressante histoire sur les bugatti hollandaises d’Artcurial sur

« prewarcar ».....

[Invité §tun768Yb]

Une intéressante histoire sur les bugatti hollandaises d’Artcurial sur

« prewarcar ».....

 

 

Ce serait mieux avec le lien... Ou un copié-collé...

 

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

Dommage...

Impossible de remettre la main dessus..

C'était sur Facebook..

Un participant retranscrivait toute l'histoire de ces bugatti et c'était extrait du site Prewarcar...

J'aurai du recopier l'adresse complète....

Si je la retrouve.....

[Invité §lef048VM]

Dommage...

Impossible de remettre la main dessus..

C'était sur Facebook..

Un participant retranscrivait toute l'histoire de ces bugatti et c'était extrait du site Prewarcar...

J'aurai du recopier l'adresse complète....

Si je la retrouve.....

 

 

ici

 

bonne lecture...

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

Merci à Lefondu pour son aide efficace et rapide...

[Invité §tun768Yb]

 

ici

 

bonne lecture...

 

 

 

[h1]True or False: The story behind the Belgian Bugatti barn finds[/h1]

 

 

 

 

 

It is about 10 years ago that we heard the myth of a couple of Bugatti's in a barn for the first time. Somewhere around Maastricht, on the border of The Netherlands and Belgium, a couple of Bugatti's were hidden in a barn for many years. No-one had seen them for the last couple of years and so time passed. But it was about a month ago that we heard of them again when auction house Artcurial released

about a discovery they made. On February 8th, 2019 the Bugatti's will be auctioned at their flagship sale at the Retromobile show. After seeing the video we were of course very enthusiastic but on the other hand a bit sceptic. Was the story real? Where it the cars that we heard of so many years ago? Or were they using the myth for their marketing? We spoke to some insiders and let's say; it is a very interesting story.

The story behind the cars is that of a Dutch artist, Mr August Thomassen, who had the cars in his garage for over 60 years and didn't drove them for the last years. He didn't want anybody to know he still owned the cars and only used them for inspiration for his sculptures.[h3]The Bugatti register:[/h3]

Our research started in the Bugatti registers. A very valuable source: Chassis 57500 was acquired by Mr A. Thomassen on 05-01-1960 and was described in the 1962 register as in good condition. According to the information, Mr Thomassen still owns the car. Same goes for Chassis 49487, which was bought in 1957 but after this, all traces are lost.

When we started asking around we quickly received photos of exactly the same barn with Bugatti's in it. The photos are taken about 20/30 years ago and we see the famous Bugattist Guillaume Prick with another Bugatti (57189) than those that will be auctioned. So at that time, we know Mr Thomassen owned the cars, they were still moved around and probably also driven.

Our sceptic mind took over and we were afraid that it was just a (good) marketing stunt and the cars were just parked there for the movie.

"We all had the hope that one day we were able to buy them."

We spoke to a local Bugatti car collector to ask if he knew more and he fired up our enthusiasm again. He knew August Thomassen and he said " everyone knew that the family had Bugatti's but for the last 20 years they did everything they could to let people believe the cars were sold and not any more in their possession and therefore garage. Most of us didn't believe their story, but there wasn`t much we could do about it. We all had the hope that one day we were able to buy them. But nobody had seen them for years. I know the owner didn't want to talk about it."[h3]No wheels and no steering wheel[/h3]

Apparently, it was about 20 years ago that Mr Thomassen got so afraid that someone would steal his precious cars, that he decided to park them in his garage and first put them on blocks and removed the wheels. After a while, he took the steering wheel of the cars and hid them. But even that didn't give him a save feeling, so the next task was to block the garage doors with heavy bags of sand. And then time did the rest.

According to the story, it was only since a few months that the owner and his family made new plans. After someone tried to break into the garage, the decision was made to sell them. It was time that the garage opened its doors and others were able to see the cars for the first time in many, many years.

It wasn't very easy to take them out. We spoke to one of the helpers and he said the first problem was, as can be seen on the video, to remove the cars parked before the barn, after that to remove the heavy bags with sand, while they still weren't entirely sure if the cars were inside. The moment the door opened, can be seen in the movie. The cars really exist. It wasn't just a myth, there were a Bugatti Type 49 with Vanvooren body, a Bugatti T57 Cabriolet by Graber and a lovely Citroen 5HP hidden behind the doors.

After the happy discovery, the next big task was to get them out. They had to find the wheels with tires, steering wheels, and there even was a Triumph Mayflower parked before the T49 which was completely blocking the way. They put the car up against the ceiling so they were able to push the Vanvooren bodied car out. They had to make all the cars rolling but apparently, everthing was in a remarkably good condition and all was ready to move to Paris.[h3]Conclusion:[/h3]

When doing our research, we got enthusiastic. We could only dream about the moment that the doors opened and when you really see the cars you have only heard about. The story is, as far as we can find out, a true story. Of course, many knew the cars did exist and most likely still in the ownership of August Thomassen (it is even written in the Bugatti register) but almost nobody has seen them for the last 20-ish years. Are they a barn find? Well, Artcurial was contacted by the family but still, we see cars listed as barn finds which haven't seen a barn in many years. So, we hope to find a similar barn someday ourselves this way! It would be great to see the cars in real life and we hope for MrThomassen that the prices will be good.

More information about the Artcurial auction can be found here.

Published: Thursday January 17th, 2019

[h2]Comments[/h2]<hr style="height:0px;margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:20px;border-right:0px;border-bottom:0px;border-left:0px;border-top-style:solid;border-top-color:rgb(238,238,238);" />Mahy Ivan21 January, 18:17

 

 

 

Many years ago, probably at the end of the sixties, I remember me that my father told me having seen two Bugatti's near a flower mill in the Limburg area. He lost the address and afterwards, a Sunday, we tried to find the location, without success. Were these the ones?

There are still hidden cars and to find as-barn founds. I know about a lot of three antics from around the 1900's, in very good, still in original's shape. But the owner keeps them for himself and this , seems me, is his good right. Or not?

Guy Huet

20 January, 12:12

 

 

 

What happened to his Type 40 ?

I remember Thomassen on the Rallye du Montblanc

with it. A lot of time was spent on getting it going, and more

time on keeping it going.

Ned

20 January, 10:41

 

 

 

Dear all

Pre auction period?

Real informations for car lowers

Nothing is wrong with all these

This is how the life goes on....

Good luck enjoying them for future owner

Ned

 

 

Jack Braam Ruben20 January, 10:17

 

 

 

Yes. All true. I was there when the doors opened. Thomassen visited me about 40 years ago to talk Bugatti. He had heard of a young man living in the woods with 2 Bugatti's.

But when I visited him with Jean Prick some 20 years later the door stayed closed. It is the privilege of the owner to do anything he pleases.

Having said that the poor Bugatti's needed a better life and a warmer garage. Nothing is forever.

 

Larry A. Lewis17 January, 22:56

 

 

 

So they were not really "unknown" but so what? Imagine being there when the doors were opened!

lars legaard18 January, 11:36

 

 

 

It is a question about privacy- but the world has to be open to all, and to my opinion that is not decent

 

 

Jos van Genugten18 January, 14:21

 

 

 

They have been hidden as long as the owner has wished them to be hidden. As soon as the owner decided on a public sale the story has gone public. No shame in being interested in that!

 

 

 

lars legaard17 January, 22:06

 

 

 

Shame on you all !

Why can a private collector not have his cars for him self- I hate this envious interest, that shows it ugly face from time to time

 

Lars Legaard

 

Comment

John Chevers17 January, 15:27

 

 

 

The reason I asked was that the front wings are of a completely different shape to the auction car. How do you explain the change?

Comment

John Chevers17 January, 10:32

 

 

 

So what is the car in picture 3? It doesn't look like either of the ones in the Artcurial auction.

Editor17 January, 15:11

 

 

 

That is the T57, that was taken out of the garage 30 years ago(57189)

 

 

Hans Veenenbos17 January, 09:59

 

 

 

I can assure you that every bit of the story is true, having inspected the T57 Graber and the T49 Vanvooren myself in their barns in 1974 in the company of August Thomassen. Around 1986 I went there again with August and when I took him back to his inconspicuous home in Maastricht we talked for a while in my car. I sensed he was almost at the point of selling me the T57, but then he disappeared again in his house .... the steering wheels were hanging on the wall in his house.

[EB a Levallois]

 

Ce serait mieux avec le lien... Ou un copié-collé...

 

 

 

Je pense que c'est çà!

Classic Bugatti for sale - Bugatti cars for sale - PreWarCar

[Invité §lef048VM]

[h3]Un copié/collé

[/h3][h3]

[/h3][h3]Bugatti 57 personnelle de Jean Bugatti 1937[/h3]

 

Châssis : 57583 enregistrée sous le numéro 57308

Moteur n°: 418, now 430

Année: 1937

Type 57C Ventoux, appelée "La Grise"

Voiture utilisée par Jean Bugatti le soir du 11 août 1939 pour se rendre sur les lieux des essais à faire avec la T57C victorieuse aux dernières 24 h du Mans, était une T57 Ventoux, donc 2 portes et 4 places. Il s'agissait de la voiture châssis 57308, surnommée "La Grise" que Jean avait utilisée quotidiennement pendant 3 ans, et qui était en même temps toujours dotée de toutes les améliorations à apporter aux futurs modèles T57-clients. C'est dans cette voiture que Robert AUMAITRE a conduit Jean à l'hôpital, où il n'est jamais arrivé vivant. A son retour de Belgique, Ettore a interdit de toucher à cette T57 Ventoux, car elle devait rester exactement comme Jean l'avais quittée (pour toujours). Cette voiture était le symbole des dernières années et des dernières heures très heureuses de Jean et des 1500 personnes de la firme BUGATTI. Aujourd’hui encore « La Grise » est restée comme Jean l’avait quittée, marquée par son ADN sanguin sur la banquette et l’usure de ses chaussures sur les pédales. Elle appartient à un collectionneur qui n’a pas changé la carte grise, toujours aujourd'hui et depuis plus de 70 ans au prestigieux nom personnel d’un membre de la famille Bugatti.

Le prix de cette auto exceptionnelle est sur une base de discussion de 1.700.000 euros.

Bugatti 57 personelle de Jean Bugatti 1937

Chassis: 57583 registered as 57308

Engine no .: 418, now 430

Year: 1937

Type 57C Ventoux, called "La Grise"

Car used by Jean Bugatti on the evening of August 11, 1939 to go to the test site to be done with the T57C victorious in the last 24 hours of Le Mans, was a T57 Ventoux, so 2 doors and 4 seats. It was the chassis car 57308, nicknamed "The Gray" which Jean had used daily for 3 years, and which was at the same time always equipped with all the improvements to be made to the future models T57-clients. It was in this car that Robert AUMAITRE took Jean to the hospital, where he never arrived alive. On his return from Belgium, Ettore forbade touching this T57 Ventoux, because it had to remain exactly as Jean had left (forever). This car was the symbol of the last years and last very happy hours of John and the 1,500 people of the firm BUGATTI. Even today "La Grise" remained as Jean had left it, marked by his blood-red DNA on the bench and the wear of his shoes on the pedals. It belongs to a collector who has not changed the gray card, still today and for more than 70 years to the prestigious personal name of a member of the Bugatti family.

The price of this exceptional car is on a discussion basis of 1,700,000 euros.

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

Bonjour

Est elle toujours à M.P., marchand lyonnais?

Merci pour votre retour...

[Invité §D8S071kQ]

C’est effectivement un copié-collé du bugatti register, qui mentionne bien le nom du propriétaire auquel je pensais...

[sympathisant]

Photo prise à Molsheim lors du Festival en 90.

 

[sympathisant]

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[Invité §Bug127hr]

Bonjour

Est elle toujours à M.P., marchand lyonnais?

Merci pour votre retour...

 

 

Revoir en page 817 les commentaires qui concernent cette voiture.

Mais retour quelques instants sur la légende :

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZwW [...] IGNANT.jpg

Après un parcours de + 2 millions de kms, on peut logiquement douter que la voiture est restée dans l’état où l’a laissée Jean, au soir du 11 août 1939.

[Invité §bug337la]

 

 

 

Ce n'est pas le 49308 mais le 49481

[Invité §bug337la]

 

 

Ce n'est pas un T57 mais le T43 ex-Marc Nicolosi (CN 43289) avec 123 FMX 75 (F)

[sympathisant]

Mais bien-sûr.

Vraiment désolé, faudra que dorénavant je me relise.

D'autres suivront, avec la bonne légende.

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