[Thème 2013] Lamborghini Marzal 1/43 PM by urraco28

[urraco28]

La solution que je vois la plus simple est de faire des lignes en phd qu'il faudra plier. Ensuite on pose une autre ligne dessus et ainsi de suite...

 

Les lignes doivent être dans le sens transversal bien entendu. Exnerve... tu voudrais bien m'aider pour faire ces photodécoupe?

[Exnerve]

moi je veux bien aider, mais je ne comprends rien à ce que tu veux faire !!

Il va falloir me faire un dessin !! d'ailleurs un essai en papier bristol ou en tôle de canette permettrait sûrement d'y voir plus clair.

[urraco28]

J'y ai bien réfléchis, t'inquiète, je vais te faire le dessin

[24eme O Phil]

Pfiouuu, bonjour le pliage!

Je crois que tu n'es pas sorti du sable.

Cela parait quand même une bonne idée.

[urraco28]

Oui, c'est sur, mais c'est je pense le plus simple...

[Exnerve]

en attendant que tu croques les alvéoles, il y a une gouache à vendre cet après midi:

 

http://www.artcurial.com/fr/as [...] o=10443887

[urraco28]

Superbe, mais le prix...

[mail0183]

Je vais déjà tester le thermoformage, je verrais bien ce que ça donne

 

Et pour le moulage, je sais faire, t'inquiète! Ça fait plus de 20 ans que j'en fait

 

je suis plutôt pour la 1ére solution , mais ma boite n'est pas encore faite

sérieusement il va falloir que je m'y mette pour la suite des montages

.

[Fmid]

Urraco, j'ai pensé à toi en feuilletant le dernier Sport Auto consacré au cinquantenaire de Lamborghini.

 

Il y a notamment un portrait d'Edmond Ciclet, mécanicien spécialiste des Lambo, qui explique que sur le proto Marzal, le bloc était bien un V12 qui n'avait même pas été coupé. On avait juste retiré la moitié des bielles et une culasse… D'après lui, ce bricolage fonctionnait parfaitement.

[urraco28]

J'ai pas encore lu cet article... Mais ça m'étonne quand même... Quand je regarde la photo du moteur en page 2, je ne vois pas ou serait l'autre partie du bloc...

 

Sur la Marzal, les carbus sont horizontaux au lieu d'être verticaux sur la Miura, mais même avec ça, l'espace qui reste entre la vitre et les carbu est très mince, je ne vois pas en dessous le bloc sans sa culasse...

[urraco28]

J'ai fais quelques recherches et quoi de mieux en général que le descriptif de la voiture pour la vente aux enchères

 

Le texte vient donc de chez RM Auctions qui a vendu la Marzal le 21 Mai 2011:

 

"

Villa d'Este Saturday, May 21, 2011

Bertone S.p.A.

1967 Lamborghini Marzal

LOT: 112 Estimate: €1.000.000-€1.800.000 Chassis No. 10001 AUCTION RESULTS: Lot was Sold at a price of €1.512.000

175 bhp, 1964 cc six-cylinder in-line engine, three Weber 40DCOE carburettors, five-speed gearbox, independent front and rear suspension with triangular wishbones, coil springs, telescopic dampers and anti-roll bars, four-wheel disc brakes. Wheelbase: 2,620 mm (103.1"   - From the Collection of Bertone S.p.A. - Unveiled at Geneva Motor Show (March 1967) - One-off Lamborghini four seat, gullwing concept - A futuristic Marcello Gandini design with unique, prototype engine - Predecessor to the Espada production car   “A Bertone design so fresh that everything else looks old fashioned,” was Road & Track’s opening comment in its July 1967 report on the stunning Lamborghini Marzal show car. Introduced at the Geneva Motor Show four months earlier, the P200 Marzal was the result of a close collaboration between Bertone and Lamborghini. In fact, it was the materialisation of a common ambition shared by Nuccio Bertone and Ferruccio Lamborghini: to give birth to a true GT with comfortable seating for four, offering high performance and redefining the very concept of grand touring.   Suitably named after a strain of fighting bull, the Marzal featured a unique prototype engine developed by Lamborghini that would never see production. It was a transversally mounted in-line six-cylinder which was essentially a rear bank of a Miura’s 3,929-cc V-12, fed by horizontal Weber carburettors and mated to the standard five-speed transmission. The engine was turned 180 degrees compared to the Miura’s layout so that it was behind the rear axle, therefore making it more of a rear- than mid-engined layout. This obviously freed up interior space so that four passengers could sit comfortably. The radiator was fitted right at the rear, which meant the passengers could take some luggage too, as the long front bonnet housed 11 cubic feet of loading space, along with a 21-gallon fuel tank.   The chassis was based on a much-modified Miura chassis, its wheelbase extended by 120 mm to accommodate those extra two passengers. As the overall length was still relatively compact, Marcello Gandini elected to use a pair of long gullwing doors rather than a constrained four-door layout. This enabled him to fit large windows which, combined with a lightly smoked glass roof, helped create a very airy feeling inside the cabin. Bertone helped engineer the air-conditioning system made mandatory by such a large amount of glass surfacing, which totalled 4.5 square metres (48.4 sq. ft.) and was supplied by Belgian company, Glaverbel.   Famously, Ferruccio Lamborghini objected to those doors, in particular the lower windows mounted below the waistline which would “offer no privacy: a lady’s legs would be there for all to see.” Supporting the weight of those hefty gullwing doors when open were a pair of long transverse springs at the rear of the engine bay operated by a pulley and shaft system which relied in part on cleverly-recycled steering column components. The one-piece rear engine cover was hinged at the bottom rear, and for all the glass employed in the cabin there was no rear screen, replaced as it was by a panel made of aluminium slats riveted together. The assembly allowed for rear visibility as well as air circulation to help with engine cooling.   The interior was highly futuristic, with a hexagonal honeycomb theme on the dashboard and centre console housing most instruments and controls. The hexagon theme was carried over even in the general shape of the seat’s cushions and backrests, whilst their trim literally stood out with a highly reflective finish. This space-age arrangement may even have inspired the great French-American designer Raymond Loewy, whose designs for the Skylab space station, developed from 1967 onwards, would rely heavily on hexagonal patterns.   It must be noted that the interior underwent some variations in period, presumably both before and after the car’s unveiling, as elements such as the steering wheel, gear knob, instruments and the trim itself were modified in stages. The configuration of the car as it stands now still dates back to the 1960s.   The Campagnolo magnesium wheels of the Marzal – complete with gorgeous three-eared spinners – were a true masterpiece in themselves, their elaborate, sporting design echoing that of the Miura’s wheels only with added elegance. Even the form of the holes was a continuation of the hexagonal theme seen throughout the interior and on the rear window slats.   The slender nose featured six Marchal quartz-iodine headlamps, likely the smallest available at the time, to fit between the lip of the bonnet and the innovative black rubber bumper. The body was made of steel, with the massive front bonnet crafted in aluminium, presumably to make it more manageable to lift. Styling-wise, the car was full of detail touches which converged to make the shape more dynamic. Note the polished metal sills running the length of the car to make the body appear even slimmer and the perceived proportions even more dramatic. Clever surface sculpting is evident throughout, such as in the way the upper wing’s edge, although interrupted by the large side window, is picked up again above the rear wheel arch, adding just the right amount of volume over the rear wheel and creating a subtle housing for a cleverly-concealed side intake feeding the engine. The lip of the front wheel arch peaked right at the edge of the bonnet, contributing once again to its very slim look. Four years later, Bertone’s chief stylist Marcello Gandini would have the lip overlap on the bonnet altogether for an even more pronounced effect on the Stratos Stradale.   Whereas Gandini’s earlier projects for Bertone (Miura, Montreal, Fiat Dino Coupé) may still have been tinged with some of Giugiaro’s own design flair, the Marzal entirely broke away from that mould and was the car that confirmed Gandini’s position as a star designer in his own right. The softly-spoken man declared: “Basically, the Marzal was drifting towards what science-fiction writers had been promising. With these prototypes a public declaration was made of our way of seeing the cars of the future.” Certainly, a whole generation of kids fell in love with the Marzal thanks to the models produced in numbers by the likes of Matchbox, Dinky Toys, Politoys, Penny and others.   The Marzal made a notable appearance at the Monaco Grand Prix on May 7, 1967, where it was driven around the circuit by Prince Rainier together with Princess Grace. Features followed in the international press, topped by a proper test drive by Italian magazine Quattroruote, which noted the engine’s liveliness in its October 1967 issue. Although never fully developed by Lamborghini, the Marzal was estimated to be good for a 225 km/h top speed (140 mph). The respected Automobile Year annual noted that four members of its staff had spent an entire day driving in the car, adding that if it were to spawn a production version, they would have no hesitation in naming it their “Car of the Year.”   The Marzal was indeed followed into production the following year by the Lamborghini Espada four-seater coupé, which retained the Marzal’s general aesthetics but did away with the rear-engine layout and glass doors. The initial Espada pre-series prototypes still sported gullwing doors, but those too had disappeared by the time the final car reached production. That the Espada remained in production until 1978 is a testament to the Marzal’s novelty. The show car was influential enough to still have an impact on car designers decades later. Bertone itself adapted the concept with its 1994 Karisma concept, which replicated the rear engine layout and long gullwing doors giving access to a plush interior seating four, this time on Porsche mechanicals.   The future owner of the Marzal will not only possess a landmark example of design by Italy’s dominant post-war coachbuilding industry, one the illustrious British journalist LJK Setright described as “perhaps the most extravagant piece of virtuoso styling to have come out of Europe since the war,” but with it a very unique prototype Lamborghini engine, the only one of its type ever made.   This lot is subject to VAT (at 20%) on the full purchase price (both on the hammer price and the commission)."   D'après eux, le bloc à été retourné par rapport à sa position dans la Miura ce afin de privilégier la place pour les 4 sièges. Ils parlent bien d'un six en ligne, pas d'un V12 auquel on aurait enlevé une culasse et 6 bielles....   Enfin, bref, c'est pas ça le plus important. Je vous invite quand même à lire cet article, je trouve qu'il résume bien la Marzal

[Fmid]

Je ne fais que transmettre

 

Ça m'étonne un peu aussi vu qu'il n'y a pas grand place à l'arrière sur la Marzal. Maintenant, on peut aussi comprendre qu'ils n'aient pas eu envie de se casser le tronc pour un proto

[urraco28]

Je sais bien François , lit cet article que je viens de mettre, il en dit plus ...

 

Après, il faut se remettre dans le contexte de l'époque, Lamborghini est en plein développement, faire un nouveau moteur est dans leur idée, et la solution la plus simple pour le moment est de faire un demi V12 .

Déjà le V12 de la Miura est bien différent de celui de la 350/400GT dans le fait qu'il est transversal au lieu d'être longitudinal, cela implique de refaire complètement la boite de vitesse. Et par la suite le V12 de la Countach, bien que dérivant de celui des 350/400GT sera différant avec son arbre de transmission traversant le carter...

[carabo31]

Nice model car.

 

I have a big please, Can you scan and post here Decals of the Marzal model?

[urraco28]

I will make a scan of the decals, yes

[sprinteur]

Carabo31, what a nice name

What kind of models do you collect ?

[urraco28]

J'ai avancé un peu sur la Marzal, mais pour les photos, il faudra attendre demain car je suis tomber en panne de batterie et j'aurais pas le temps aujourd'hui de les mettre en ligne...

 

Donc, j'ai peins les sièges en argent ainsi que la baignoire. J'ai eu une petite réaction avec la peinture mais qui au final donne un aspect patiné à l'argent qui va bien Vous me direz ce que vous en pensez...

[toxicat]

Comme quoi, les catastrophes heureuses, ça arrive des fois!!! http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/lol.gifhttp://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/lol.gifhttp://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/static/icones/smilies/lol.gif

[urraco28]

Exactement Toxi

 

En plus la patine est aux bons endroits

[carabo31]

Hallo

 

I collect cars with nice design. Yes concepts from Bertone, Pininfarina, Italdesign are in my collection too and Bertone is my top favorite bodywork maker. My top favorite car is Carabo. I would like to see it in real but for now I can not do it. I collect anything about this car, I know where is it anytime you ask me. Now is Carabo in Louwman museum. Presentacion name is Alfa Romeo Stijliconen.

[sprinteur]

OK great !

The Carabo is a very nice concept indeed, and Bertone made many beautiful cars

[mail0183]

ce n'est pas le tout d'en parler il faut la voir déjà présentées mais

 

 

désolé pour le dérapage , urraco si tu nous vois

.

[urraco28]

Tant que ce n'est pas une Fefe, ça me va Et puis c'est le brouillon de la Countach

[24eme O Phil]

On ne dit pas " Mes batteries sont tombées en panne! " mais " J'ai lamentablement oublié de les charger... ".

Hâte de voir les sièges avec le spécheul effect.

 

J'avais une Carabo Jouef, je l'adorais et j'ai beaucoup tourné avec, génial!

[urraco28]

Ah non, mes batteries, je les utilisent jusqu'au bout! Donc elles étaient vraiment déchargées, je sais pas si la dernière photo prise l'est réellement d'ailleurs...

[urraco28]

Voici les photos promises:

 

Les sièges

 

 

et la baignoire

 

 

Comme on le devine, il y a des zones ou la peinture n'a pas complètement adhérée... Mais ça me va bien comme ça

[NicoLaviolette]

Je trouve ça très convaincant !

[urraco28]

Merci Nico

[24eme O Phil]

Je trouve ça très convaincant !

+1 !

[urraco28]

Merci Phil

[mail0183]

Je trouve ça très convaincant !

 

+2

je ne m'autoriserais pas une féraillerie

.

 

.

[carabo31]

Nice work, Good inspiration for rebuilding Marzal from Sablon. I began today.

Do you use color in spray or you use rewell paint set or another paint set.

 

My Marzal from Sablon that I have buy on Ebay:

 

 

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m569/carabo31/biela/Bild257222790_zps2e7f8478.jpg

 

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m569/carabo31/biela/Bild257222791_zps9fc8f723.jpg

 

 

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m569/carabo31/biela/Bild257222792_zps80ce6c92.jpg

 

I hope you can Help my with decals.

[urraco28]

Nice project

 

I use a spray for the Silver, it's an old spray i have in my stock since more than 15 years...

 

I think the most difficult for you will be to restore the wheels... That's the problem with the Sablon models... I have it also in my collection (I have quit all the Marzal produced...)

As the wheels for the Marzal are specific it will not be easy to find some... But you can perhaps use Miura Wheels. They are very similar.

 

You give an idea for the grid of the engine bonnet, i will look my other Marzal in 1/43, perhaps i can find some

[carabo31]

Thank you. I have buy two Miura models from delprado. I use front wheels and I would like to modify them a bit. I can make wings on central wing nut and the disk will see more realistic. But it will not see like Marzal disk.

[Exnerve]

Elle a roulé trop vite la Marzal Sablon, les pneus ont fondu !